Since this (still) is an isolated occurance (911) you can say that we are safer now than before the attack, noone knows.
If somehting should happen tomorrow on american soil, the arguments against the present policy will be valid , is that what you are saying?
If I get burglared every day and hire a security guard and the burglaries stops but instead my house gets bombed and the guard dies, I think it was a bad decision to hire that guard and that I should have tried to figure out why my house was burglaried in the first place, instead. Maybe I should have put the things the thieves were after at another location or maybe I should have stopped preaching my religion to people that didnt want to hear about it?

Well...the US does have the option to become part of Sweden I guess (although I'm sure the process is long and painful ). We could all renounce our religions and convert to Islam. Or, we could just join the "One China" group and all learn Chinese...our new China with 1.5 billion people and a 19 trillion dollar economy wouldn't have to take any garbage from anybody!

Of course assuming you actually liked your house and the neighborhood you were in, making reasonable changes to deal with the specific problem would be preferable.

We prefer to remain Americans and fight the enemies who attack us. If they win, they win...but at least we will have done our best to keep our way of life and preserve our beliefs. 9/11 was not an isolated occurrence...it was the second attack on the WTC and one of many against the US over the last dozen years.
Cheers,
H.

I think Bush isn't aggressive enough. I think if we are going to war we need to take out all terrorist countries. Right now he is doing half measures at best. Also he doesn't care about illegal immigration.

I believe terrorists, by definition, are not countries. They are individuals and groups that decide to get what they want by terrorizing people. Countries just go to war. Countries may produce and/or harbor them, but it isn't stated policy. Is every Iraqi a terrorist? Every Saudi Arabian? Every Iranian?

As to intelligence, anybody who actually wants to be President in this country (US) is a bit mentally deficient to begin with! Politicians are one rung lower than lawyers on the evil guy ladder.

www.mpogd.com
You show your intelligence when you vote for Wol.

Moggy,
Where does this come from? The only mention of countries here has been in regard to terrorist targets. You are not disputing that terrorists target certain countries and not others are you?

To hit your point directly though, it is policy in Iran and Syria to support and harbor terrorists. Just as it was in Afghanistan before our invasion. Lebanon and the "state of Palistine" if one ever becomes reality will almost certainly have official terrorist organizations making thier government policy...so both happen.

I do agree with you on the most politicians are evil guys part...especially because most of them ARE lawyers. Double evil!!!
Cheers,
H.

I was replying to Finguld's post above mine. He mentioned terrorist countries.
Israeli's used terrorism to achieve their goals as well, so....nobody's innocent.
However, once a whole country actually uses terror, it is a war, not just incidents. This is a shaky semantic argument that I don't wish to persue very far, however. Terrorists are lousy people, no matter what stripe they are under. They target civilians to make people be scared rather than openly declare war and suffer the consequences. I do not support or believe in terrorist tactics.
I hope stinky ol' Osama is caught and tried. I also hope that the US will stop supporting Saudi Arabia in its drive to remain a backward, intolerant nation. If we didn't prop up the Saudis, Osama would have had no reason to target us. He wants westerners out of the Mideast and every Muslim dominated country. We support a corrupt regime in Saudi Arabia to keep that dern oil flowing.

www.mpogd.com
Vote or forever hold your peace.

Last Edited : Tuesday, 14 June 2005 - 13:25

SO we should stop supporting Saudia Arabia becasue Bin Laden wants us too? In oreder to prevent terrorist attacks, you suggest we give them everything they ask for?

I think Mog also mentioned that we should stop supporting the Saudi's because they're a backwards, intolerant nation.

If you wanted to save a busful of nuns from exploding into the Statue of Liberty, and Osama was standing there shouting SAVE THEM, SAVE THEM, would you let them explode?

The problem is that Osama wants us out of there so we have no influence on the Saudis and he can KEEP them a backwards, intolerant nation to his liking. Along with the rest of the Mideast as well.

Probably not the best course of action for long-term world peace. I prefer the Bush Doctrine.
Cheers,
H.

We still support dictatorships as long as they have something we want. Why is Saddam a dictator and the House of Saud not? Why did we support Saddam while he murdered thousands of his people? Why did we send arms to both sides of the Iraq-Iran war?

If supporting dictators is fine with you, raise your hand.

PS, Osama is a dirty fink, but he has done more to advance Muslim prosperity and health than the Saudis ever have, and that's why he is revered by many. He is a master manipulator and a very dangerous enemy. He played George Bush like a Stradivarius!

Sage - "I think Mog also mentioned that we should stop supporting the Saudi's because they're a backwards, intolerant nation."

In both curretn political threads, Mog is prectically a pro Bin-Laden poster child.

Dude, Mog, look at who your enemy is.


Mog - "but he has done more to advance Muslim prosperity and health than the Saudis ever have, and that's why he is revered by many."

Man, he is A MURDERING scum. He has done more to advance war and hate than anybody since Hitler.

Yes, it's useless to try and understand WHY people follow Bin Laden. It's so much easier to just assume that they follow him because he's a murdering scum. Maybe they like murdering scum.

Understanding people's motives doesn't neccessarily mean approving of them.

So, Mao and Stalin and Tito were just nice fellas, huh?

I already said I don't LIKE Osama. He is a murdering hateful jerk. However, I am willing to look at what he has done to garner support in the Muslim world. He has built schools, hospitals, infrastructure. Muslims think he is better than the Saudi royal family. Neither is much good to me.

Moggy,
If building schools, hospitals, and infrastructure is the key, why is the US not loved there as well? We have certainly built more than Osama...in Iraq, in the Palestinian territories, in Afghanistan. Can you actually name a school or hospital that Osama built? I can give you coordinates for several terrorist training facilities where he has taught thousands of Muslims how to die for Islam. He is not nearly so noble as you make him out to be. The Islamists think he is great because he fought against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and he has taken up arms against the "Great Satan" United States. They support his killing of anyone opposed to Islamic dictatorship. It is that simple...and that deadly. He must be stopped by capture or death...not withdrawal...not pacification...not through offers from the UN. Death or capture...just like Saddam.
Cheers,
H.

Last Edited : Tuesday, 14 June 2005 - 21:54

I agree.

Mog "He has built schools, hospitals, infrastructure."

umm... ok, that would be a ... LIE!!!

Don't you mean he builds terrorist training camps and terrorist safe houses. Islam is currently the only major religion preaching intolerance. His people support him becasue he promises them world supremancy.

I am so fed up with this "we hate America, Al-Quida is so awesome" attitude.

I am tired of hearing about abuse of the Quran when they are beheading innocient civilians.

Am I reading a different thread here, or perhaps I'm just illiterate?


It doesn't appear that Mog is trying to paint Bin Laden as a nobel man, quite the contrary. It merely seems he's trying to elucidate the means by which he has come to power and influence (which Sage has also pointed out).


I realize that often people are on polarized ends of the political spectrum here, but is that any reason to misrepresent what someone else has said/written? It's rather counter-productive to fruitful discussion.






Vote at www.mpogd.com/
Remember that plaque is a figment of the liberal media and the dental industry to scare you into buying useless appliances and pastes. Now, I've heard the arguments on both sides, and there is nothing to convince me of the need to brush your teeth.

Do you not think building schools,hospitals, and infrastructure is noble? I do. It is one of the things we actually do for those we defeat (Germany, Japan, Iraq, etc.) to show we really are not against them...just their oppressors. It is something Osama is given credit for by some...with no evidence whatsoever. This makes him LOOK like a noble man by my logic. What do you think?
Cheers,
H.

Yes BOB. The way I have read his post is that both Bin-Laden and the US Sucks, but Bin-Laden sucks less and everybody likes him and everybody hates us. SO we should leave them alone and do what he wants.

You just can't debate Mog's actual position, so you're turning it into something that you can argue. What you just said is the most twisted way of interpreting Mog's post...you must have worked hard to see it that way.

We've already explained several times why the way you see it is in error. I'm not going to waste the time typing it out again. Figure it out...you're a smart guy.