Ok, I'm probably going to adress stuff from the whole topic here seeing how I just read it. Just so you know, I am a Christian so my views are biased towards Christianity.

Envy/jealously is something that is very hard to control in certain cases. Say you worked all your life to do something and you see someone just get a free ride there, that's jealousy, and that is hard to control. Emotions can take control. You need to pray really hard to not get jealous over something like that. If it's something stupid like your neighbor getting an X-Box, I think you need to chill out a bit, that's nothing.

I dont agree with the catholics view on getting into heaven. It seems like a good idea, but the thing is, no matter how good you try to be, youre going to sin. The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). That's why God needed to send Jesus. He washes away the sins and he suffered death for us so we can get to heaven. No matter what good works you do, it wont get anywhere. Thats why I lean more towards the fundamentalists. Who says that good works will get you in the heaven? If God said it it would be in the Bible. While some people do whatever they want, I do beleive they will still get to heaven if they truly beleive and ask God to save them. Generally people will change, but not always.

As for Hitler, if he didnt really believe in Jesus, he's screwed. He didnt seem to. He's an animal. He killed millions of people for no aparent reason except hate. I do not draw paralels between Hitler and Bush. Bush did invade Iraq, but if I remember there were satellite photos of the WMD plants, Hussein probably just sneaked the weapons out of there. I think theyre either buried in the desert, or in another country like Syria. Even if there were no weapons, he still freed a country from a dictator who gased, raped, and tortured his own people. If anything I see Kerry as more like hitler than Bush. ("Im catholic but I support abortion").

I dont find Christianity to be the fault, but I do see Islam. Terrorists always tell you to sacrifice yourself from Allah and crap. The true christians dont do that. Bush did get us in war, but they did have terrorists in Iraq, and we did get hit on 9/11.

I don't know why but I'm getting the impression that some folks might actually think Hitler could have got into Heaven simply by asking Jesus to save him.
Actually I guess Jesus could have done that but then could we blame non-Christians for thinking religion is a farce if He did?

IMO there is nothing that Hitler could have done to get into Heaven because he became the embodiment of the devil; and So as far as I'm concerned "doing good" however you want to say it is as important as having faith that Jesus will save you, because I think that obviously God created hell for people who act and do even remotely like people like Hitler;
and that implies people who do bad or evil and I don't think Hitler is mentioned in the Bible either but someone like him probably is.

The words "good deeds" and "do good" can be found in a few places in the Bible:

"Psalms 37:27 - Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore."

"Nehemiah 13:14 - Remember me, O my God, concerning this, and wipe not out my good deeds that I have done for the house of my God, and for the offices thereof."

PS:

I'm Catholic and I don't support abortion.

TR

Does anybody think abortions are good fun or something? They aren't, and people who preach against birth control and sex education are more responsible for abortions than those who try to keep girls and women from getting pregnant, IMO. That means...gasp...the Pope. Planned Parenthood is far more useful to women than the church, as I see it.

OK, lay it on me.

As a matter of fact I can imagine that abortion is probably as painful as natural birth with the added danger of hemorraging, infection, permanent damage with loss of ability to bear children not to mention even probably a greater chance of death.

The Catholic Church stance on all these issues is plain and simply (i.e. the Church preaches abstinence and chastity and preservation of the values of family and the sacred bond between husband and wife). I know some folks may not find that appealing to their lifestyles but it even goes beyond that. I understand that Europe is actually dying based on the present rate of birth.

Also the Church feels that abstinence is the way to stop Aids.
Why should people with Aids even be allowed to indulge?
Is Aids any less of a venereal disease? I don't know about now but it was once considered a crime to knowingly pass a veneral disease.
I repeat that if you don't want to be a Catholic, you don't have to be Catholic. This isn't the middle ages but the Pope isn't trying to be mean either.

Deduce it all with some Church logic. The Church is against contraception. If your not married you shouldn't be performing the necessary procedure to make babies. IMO a person with Aids should not be allowed to marry but I honestly don't know if a simple blood test will show Aids or even if Aids testing is yet required for a license. In any event it seems to me that society can meet the Church halfway, but would rather manufacture $15 billion worth of umbrellas to allow people who should be abstaining to indulge.

TR

Last Edited : Friday, 17 June 2005 - 20:48

Admittedly, if only virgins married and were faithful, there would be no more venereal disease in one generation. That isn't ever going to happen, so birth control makes more sense.

The population of the earth is far too high to sustain the current level of industrialization, we need far less people around so that we will have a chance to actually steward the Earth as your God demanded. let's talk turkey, and be a wee bit realistic about how people act. They mess around. Always have, always will. With proper birth control we need no longer have unwanted, un-fed children.

Religions that outlaw birth control are very backwards in my opinion. Since the Catholic Church has gone back on many views, i.e. the Earth is not the center of the Universe, Evolution is a possible way for God to have ordered life, etc., when will they change their minds about this issue? 300 years from now? That's too late.

PS It is illegal to knowingly spread any disease.

www.mpogd.com

Last Edited : Friday, 17 June 2005 - 06:35

Actually, I do beleive Hitler could have gone to heaven if he asked God with a sincere heart.

While good deeds are nice to do I still dont think they will get you to heaven.

NOT BY WORKS of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5)

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

And the list goes on and on.

I know most Catholics dont support abortion. I was talking about John Kerry. He claims to be a Catholic and he is for abortion. Sorry if this was misunderstood.

I dont support birth control outside of marriage. You want a birth control that will never fail? Dont have sex.

Inside marriage, I dont mind except I still think abortion is murder.If you get pregnant in marriage and you dont want the baby put it up for adoption dont kill it. I think it deserves to live. The only cases I can see where abortion might be right is rape, severe deformities (not like down syndrome or retardedness, but like 3 eyes and stuff, ya know, freaks), of course, if the mother's life is in danger.

I dont think AIDS infected people should be able to marry either....except for other AIDS infected people.

While doing what the church said would greatly decrease the number of STDs and pregnancies. Abstinance doesnt work in sex ed because they have t teach from a secular standpoint. If an aithiest says sex before marriage is wrong. Who is he to say that, but if he teaches it with the principles of christianity, you will know that theres an all powerful being who is against it. It may not sway aithiests, but it will sway christians or almost any religious person.

I agree that we are in God's hands (i.e. that He is our salvation) but I wouldn't recommend that we deliberately do bad even though we believe in Him and then expect that He would save us. I'm not saying that we can buy our salvation by being good, I'm saying that we can lose our salvation by being bad.

PS:
Sorry I did misunderstand about the abortion and I agree about putting the baby up for adoption.
I agree that some birth defects can be quite distressing for all concerned but I admit that I don't know how to comment about it and I know it is one of those things easy to say for those not with the misfortune.

TR

I agree with that statement, but Im not sure. What if you did something bad, then you die, you never got to ask for forgiveness. I dont think God will send you down to the lake of fire. Even though you do bad, I beleive that if you asked Jesus to be your savior genuinely at some point of your life, no matter what you do I think you will make it to heaven. I dont think you can lose your salvation if you were genuine at some point of your life.

I don't have all the answers but I'm sure tired of defending against the crusades, the inquisition, science the shape of the Earth and the scandals.
If there's a billion.one Catholics in the world, where are they all? I need some help.

TR

TR, you shouldnt have to defend the past. We should learn from it and not repeat the same mistakes.
xDoom, I am a born again Christian and have been for 12 years now I agree with you on the point that works will not get you into heaven since 'our most righteous act are as filthy rags'. Drawing on what Jesus said to the woman at the well, He forgave her for her sins and then commanded her to 'go and sin no more'. I need to do some more study to find out what the effect is when you sin after you have been born again. I'll find out after I die
Mog, you said that you wanted some kind of proof. I would highly suggest that you read 'Case for Christ' by Lee Strobel. The video seminars by Kent Hovind are very fascinating. www.myfortress.org/ has a lot of info that you may find interesting. However, the best proof is when you experience Christ for yourself.

TL

Wow
I just had a nightmare that I left our teenage nightclub/hangout, got into my car and got straffed by a "Lightning P-38"


TR