Given the current ZOC is half old system and half new, i thought it might be good to discuss possible changes and a better new system.

As stated, we have these objectives...

1. we want movement outside a combat environment to increase. Moving from your Castle to somewhere else where there are no enemy troops takes waaaaay too long. BORING! It needs to be faster.

2. movement inside combat environments needs to be a bit slower. less movement in combat means more strategy, and troop formations mean alot more. high movement in combat ruins strategy, and its already very easy to outflank in just 1 turn.

3. you cant have manually changing movement modes as there will be more individual troop units on the map in the new version. this would mean far too much micro-management. so the system needs to be auto.

4. ranged troops have a huge advantage in slow combat situations, which is bad.

5. ZOC needs to be simpler and only block pass-through in a slower combat situation, assuming ZOC is used at all.

my thoughts are such...

View radius is 8-10 (not 100% sure yet for new version).
The proximity will be changed from 3 to 8-10 as well. So you cant build/remove/etc when an enemy is within 8-10.

So why not have movement also use a proximity.
So if an enemy is within half the standard proximity, movement is effected.

eg.
if an enemy is within 4-5 spaces, you can only move an avg 5-8 spaces (depending on troop).

if there is no enemy, you can move 10-16 spaces (depending on troop).


what this does, is slows our current movement by a few points in Combat situations.
but it increases movement quite a bit in non-combat situations, so you can get from A to B much faster.

ranged troops would also be heavily penalised for attacking with less than 100% movement. afterall, you cant run & shoot at the same time very effectively.

with movement slower in combat, there is less need for ZOC, except for blocking passage between a number of troops.

Thoughts?

why not create a better road feature increase speed by 200-300% but make it so that when ur on the road u it affect ur modified attack and defense as by -20? and the present roads dont really give u 150% movement for all in many cases its like the road isnt really there

or an upgrade for castle defence only where the old ZOC is used to help defend the castle while out side the castle regular movment is in effect.

I understand it, and I think it makes sense(Req's post); it also covers a few bases!

Sounds like your on the right track with this Idea to fix a problem that I can tell has been bugging you for a while. when I started reading this post, I thought of the same fix as you. A manditory slow down when in enemy proximity. Then I read further, and seen you thought of it allready. A question though. Would your unit slow down without seeing an enemy? Letting you know that someone is near?
Heres the second thought I had. You have probably allready thought of this too.

"Battle ready option"

Just as you can put a unit in defense, and the movement is cut way down. You could add a battle ready option. When a unit is Battle ready, its movement is droped, but has complete fighting ability.
When a unit is not battle ready, it has the top speed you talk about, to get from Castle to Castle. However the fighting ability would be severly cripled.
This is also close to reality. Armies in movement have things packed up for travel, and easy carry. When there ready to fight, weapons are all yeilded, assembled, or whatever the Case depending on the units..
Troops in long travel dont carry thier swords out front. There holstered and tied. Archers dont carry there bows in hand with an arrow loaded.
People that dont want to be caught with thier pants down, can just stick with the slow travel of allways having units battle ready.

Just a thought

Last Edited : Wednesday, 19 November 2003 - 00:05

yes, this combat/movement mode was actually an idea we discussed a little while ago.

however, as seen by point 3, this wont work.

you may have 100+ armies in a campaign. you simply couldnt manually change every troop's movement mode every turn. it would take way too much time and be very tedious.

thats why we need something automated.

Do you have this problem with the Defense option?

well, considering there are far fewer troops now, AND you dont need defense mode to play, you cant really compare them.

but a Movement&Combat mode would need to be used equaly to not be disadvantaged, unlike combat mode.

yea, sounds workable.

well Actually, your Idea of a movement proximity, is an automated version of the Battle ready Idea I mentioned. If I would of thought about it. Then simply drop the level of damage from ranged. I think it will work fine. Just make sure the drop in movement only starts when you are in sight of the enemy.
I would just make it a slowly progresive drop in speed.
8 spaces away, movement drops to say, 80%.
6 spaces away, 60%
4 spaces away, 40%. so on...
Of course I know these exact numbers wouldnt work. Its just an example to give you an idea of my train of thought.

the problem there is, its much harder to determine how far you can move in 1 turn. if 1 sqr is 80%, then next 60%, etc...
too complex.

i'll just make a 4hex radius around troops/buildings.

i'll also try to add a system on the map so you can select between viewing options. so by clicking a button, you can see movement ZOC radius, ownership, range radius, etc...

If a unit has 10 movement, every movement point used could be linked to 10% BP, as per the suggestion in that other thread.

This would mean fast marches to the front, but once at the front people wouldn't want to deplete their movement and thus BP and thus retal capability.

I like this very much.

This addresses a lot of the things that we been discussing for quite a while.

I like what raptor says about defense on roads. Your defenitely exposed while traversing a road, so why not represent that by punishing the defense attributes.

I also like that it is kept simple.

That's good,Eg.
When all movement has been used up the troop can automatically use it's extra BP for MP.

This deals with points 1 and 3 effectively,while Reqs suggested "4 hex proximity slowdown" and also a steeper drop in ranged troops BP is an effective counter that also solves points 2 and 4.I can't remember if there was a point 5 but I really like this whole concept.

well, i honestly dont see a need for anything more than the 4-hex proximity slow-down and perhaps the PassThrough ZOC we have now.

ranged will be modified anyway, and there will be changes to terrains so that different terrains effect you ATT;DEF attributes, roads included.

any other thoughts?

maybe comms should have some influence in regards to the penaltys. say a comm maybe have an extended hex range that slows the enemy down. after all, the comms are meant to have a commanding influence on the battlefield.

I think that everything that has been presented so far is pretty good with the exception of buiding/removing being increased to 8-10. Even in combat situations (especially in combat situations) commandeers are supposed to be building breastworks and things of that nature. How about if in a smaller proximity, they are able to build some sorts of defensive structures that are geared toward the battlefield. It's a strategic trade-off as they are vulnerable while building. I also like the idea of movement/battle points being re-consolidated back into one unit.

Everything sounds good, but a big increase to 8-10 is good, means you can't start removing stuff and building stuff to get in the way when it's a 'combat' situation. The simpler the slow down wlist near enemy thing the better. Cause currently it's just whoever has the biggest army or whoever has most items that defend the ranged units....

I agree with Floyd, the 8-10 space restriction for building or destroying is just too much I think.