We have Advanced Weapons and Advanced Armour,
We then progress to Expert Weapons and Expert Armour.

How about Master Weapons and Armour (?) which might either;
> give an extra +10 like their predecessors (Advanced & Expert)
or
> eliminate the Maximum Attack value/strength (for Master Weapons) and eliminate the RPS advantage of an attacking unit (for Master Armour).

What say you, ohh paragons of strategy and game play?

Last Edited : Saturday, 1 January 2005 - 07:07

That sounds good to me.

Well, it's obvious that by adding 2 new techs, you introduce another element of strategy...do I tech up to 'master' weapons/armor or do I spend that 7000 gold/resources (or whatever the new cost is...currently 5000 and resources for "expert") on something else, like troop deployment?

Other than forcing someone to make that choice, what does it offer to the gameplay?

From what I've heard, and read, it seems, imo, that any and all work that needs to be done on the game should be channeled and focused on getting the new version out rather than changing the existing one that will become obsolete anyway.

Just my 'newbie' point of view

Well, first of... the question of choices is a big part of the game. What to invest in; troops, technologies, which type, etc... One more choice wouldn't break the game, in fact it just increases the amount of different possibilities and ways people do things.

Second, If the imagined cost of the new technology is deemed too high, than maybe it's a worth while technology or... the three techs cost could be a bit more staggared... i.e., reduce the cost of Expert Weapons & Expert Armour and make the Master level not that high. Besides, if you're willing to pay a veritable fortune for the top level of trading, why not pay for top level warfare?

Third, it might very well be included only in the next version, no one said anything about 'right now'. But this IS a suggestion.

I see the relevance of most techs having some kind of uniformed progress in level whether military or other technology, e.g. travel, trade, etc. The uniformed and similar structure in every aspect will increase the game's comprehensiveness and offer greater opportunities for personal preferences. It might even fuel more debates on the threads, which makes it worth it, on its own

Last Edited : Saturday, 1 January 2005 - 10:29

Adding 2 new techs like this is easy.
of course i'd have to work out the costs...

I did suggest a while ago a whole raft of changes, so that rather than just buy all teh techs and spend only on troops, you could 'specialise' in areas. Not only extra equipment techs, but architecture (wood panelling, to stone shielding, to metal reinforcement, to raw improvement, funded at huge gems and gold cost), extra tax techs, extra trade techs...just basically, widen as many branches as possible, so it never really truly ends, the game has a true 'economic' aspect, and the player is forced to REALLY define and refine his strategy, and not just mainly his tactics.

It would appear though, it largely got lost in the mists of time, probably while Req was busy elsewhere. So now you're looking at it....give it ALL some thought

well, if you want to send me a revised techlist, it shouldnt be too hard to add.

so long as they work the same as current techs (so i dont have to add any new code, rather just add more rows to the techs table in the database).

Time to get thinking...

This list is MEANT to be subject to commentary and change. I doubt I will get ALL the best values first time, and you guys might have good reason apart from not liking the costs to change it

Costs are in the format GOLD/GEMS/METAL/STONE/WOOD.

First, a possible change. Resource generation is not viable as a tech, even for those who buy it just to get a source of gems. Halving it to 3000/50/200/200/200 would at least make it pay a bit sooner.

New techs...

MOVEMENT:

Advanced -x- Travel - 10% extra movement for the given terrain. Cost is 4000/100/0/0/0.
Expert -x- Travel - 10% extra again. Cost of 6000/150/0/0/0
Master -x- Travel - A final 10%, making for a cumulative total of 40% with all techs and a possible 10% (total 50%) for home terrain. Cost is 8000/150/0/0/0.

By the time you get to master level, not many people will be willing to pay top whack for that level of travel. But -someone- might come up with some bizarre unique strategy for a specific type of rush. Either that, of they want to waste their cash - I say let them
Master level represents having true experts in the field of tracking, an awareness of the terrain (i.e. common sense) in ALL the troops (e.g. - think of native jungle dwellers in films ). It's a SERIOUS investment, and thus gives a SERIOUS reward

WEAPONS/ARMOUR: (I'm gonna spell armour this way, purely out of loyalty to local spelling. If Req or anyone else sees fit to change it back for uniformity...go right ahead )

Master Armour: +10 skill to defence for a total of +30. Cost: 10000/0/2000/1000/0.

Master Weapons: +10 skill to attack for a total of +30. Cost : 10000/0/2000/0/1000.

*** edit - expert tech removed. I assumed 4 levels of equipment advances, there are only 3 unless there ever becomes a tech called 'basic weapons/armour'

Represents the epitome of craftsmanship and technology. In the same sort of way that some would argue that late medieval Europe had the best weapons tech in the world at the time, as the arms race in gunpowder weapons bred ingenuity. Similarly, a guy getting techs like these aims to make HIS troops some of the greatest in the land

TAXES:

Government: Yields an extra +1000 from your realm. Cost: 9000/150/0/0/0.
Empire: Yields another +1000 from your realm, for a combined total of +4000 from techs. Cost: 12000/200/0/0/0.

Not surprisingly, these later techs will take a LOOOONG time to pay you back. At the starting rate of a gem being worth 25 gold, the empire tech would take 17 turns JUST to break even. But...if it's what you want to deal in, and you're willing to let the other techs go....

(continued)

Last Edited : Monday, 3 January 2005 - 14:05

BUILDING TECHS:

Loggy for some bizarre reason thinks the Wood Panelling tech is heavy on stone. True cost of 800/0/0/0/500 is given here for reference.

Wood cost increase was not given. I will assume all future increases are by the same %age.

Stone Shielding: (one of Req's old techs) Use of stone in the infrastructure makes buildings tougher to destroy, and yields an extra 25% to building health. Increases stone costs. Cost: 1600/0/0/1000/0

Metal Reinforcement: Use of metal in critical spots strengthens natural weak spots in buildings, making it more difficult to destroy them. 50% extra to building health. Increases metal costs. Cost: 3200/0/2000/0/0

Architecture: Educates commandeers and works in the skills of planning and design. Such skill makes all new buildings more sturdy. 100% extra to building health, making for a combined total of 200%. Increases ALL costs cumulatively, making for double the increase that the other building techs gave, and ne increase for any gold/gem costs. Cost: 10000/500/0/0/0

The theory here is, if you really ARE determined to build the best kingdom ever, you can follow this line of tech. It may end up bankrupting your kingdom, but it guarantees your opponent will need a SERIOUS investment in siege before he can even CONSIDER taking the land from underneath you!

RECRUITMENT:

If this tech is even possible...or worth the coding effort to put in:

Master Recruitment: Cuts troop transfer costs by 50%, making transfers into skilled stacks realistic. Cost: 5000/200/0/0/0

UPGRADES:

If the extra techs may make resources TOO scarce, these upgrade techs could increase the resource flow further:

(again, this tech if possible and viable)
Local taxes: Makes an individual castle yield an extra +1000. Requires Castle Walls upgrade.

Advanced -resource processing type-: Enables a building to work more efficiently, by an extra 50%.
Costs:
4000/100/0/0/0 : gems
5000/0/0/0/0 : gold
2000/0/750/0/0 : metal
2000/0/0/750/0 : stone
2000/0/0/0/750 : wood

If deemed necessary, you can also include an expert tech:

Expert -resource processing type-: Enables a building to work more efficiently, by an extra 50%.
Costs:
6000/150/0/0/0 : gems
7500/0/0/0/0 : gold
3000/0/1000/0/0 : metal
3000/0/0/1000/0 : stone
3000/0/0/0/1000 : wood

And also...

Master -resource processing type-: Enables a building to work more efficiently, by an extra 50%.
Costs:
8000/200/0/0/0 : gems
10000/0/0/0/0 : gold
4000/0/1250/0/0 : metal
4000/0/0/1250/0 : stone
4000/0/0/0/1250 : wood

However, personally speaking, someone would ave to be either insane, or in an LMS - to consider something THAT costly worthwhile. The master gold upgrade alone would take 40 turns to break even.

These techs represent skill in the fields of mining/manufacture. For the right price, you can gain an almost modern level of efficiency...but will you even still have that gold mine in 40 turns time?

(concludes next post)

The good news about a suggestion like this, is that you can take your pick as to which techs/upgrades make it, and which don't. It's not an all-or-nothing decision.

Also good is that most of these won't affect the delicate balance of combat mechanics any. Even the extra equipment and shielding techs are unlikely ot completely change teh way that everyone plays WOL.

But what it WILL do, is give you things to buy right the way through the game. So you won't have bough everything you care in the slightest about by turn 30, and then ignore the tech page for the rest of the game

Anyway...read it....review it....mess with the figures some, see what you think (that goes for everyone )

hmm
seems nice for a long game,but as what u said that to make the tech page occupy most of the turns
i say its not really a good idea
afterall,i would like to concentrate more on my development of army and strategy to lay siege on my enemy instead of investing too much on those techs
and with such a high cost for most of the techs,the game will be real slow

Hardly. These techs give you MORE options on top of existing ones. And if you don't want them...well...spend on your troops - nothing's stopping you, everything else is the same

@CTD - your points were great!

@ALL - Hurray! Check out your game technologies!!!
Great stuff introduced! Hurrah! Good stuff Req. Thanks.

Last Edited : Wednesday, 5 January 2005 - 03:08

Ok, i added some of the techs.

Armor & Weapons.
Some Tribute techs for more resources.
Government & Empire techs for more Gold. (altho, dont we already have a couple of Tax techs?)
And Metal & Architecture building upgrades to enhance building health.
Master Training with increases troop production a further 50%.

Well I just upgraded to master training in clan 2 and it did not effect my military training. Still showing the same number of troops to be generated as before with expert training on. Turn ticks over in 40 mins so I will report if there was an increase in production or not.

BTW I like the idea of master levels.

yeah req just fixed that it works now

yes it does work.

Good changes, market tribute looks like a useful investment (unlike resource generation). It says "bringsing" in the description btw, may want to change that


Now there's something to spend money on in the late game.


How many techs are there now anyway?


Kyrion

Req could get you a figure, but we may still have one or two more.

In the meantime, keep feeding the bugs... (and any potential fear of imbalance)

Since all the techs are being revamped, how about this addition...

It would fall under the training techs somewhere, but have the ability to choose to have a tech that allows you to train even more troops per barracks/turn.

Right now you have 2 drop downs to select which troops you want to train that turn...you either have them both set to the same troop, i.e.- both set to scouts, or one on scouts and one on another. The new tech will give you 2 more drop downs for that same barracks, for a total of 4. You can train either 4 different troops at weak population, or one troop type at large population, or any combination in between. I guess it would fall somewhere between expert training and master training on the tech tree. Maybe call it training diversity?