mmmmmm.......
*linkasy rips off his gag which was put there to stop him saying*
I TOLD YOU PEOPLE HATE CHANGE!!!

With the anticipation of huge 100 player games and with possibly that many people online at the same time, might it not be desirable to stagger the time that people take their turns in anyway possible?
This just seems to me to be one way to help to accomplish that.

TR

This change here helps accomplish a large advantage to the often onliner. Req has been adamant about not wanting to encourage the often online playing style.
TR, the 100 player game is only coming with the new version. I dont see a problem with the old system and large games. Look at the 40 player games.. they go off without a hitch.. granted it is more then half the size of the 100 player game, but I would assume that it too would work fine.

TL

Well about the often onliner, I'm not very sure being able to buy another mace after a few clicks will help anybody.

Sorry if this "goes against anyone's grain" but in the interest of game progress I feel obligated to defend the potential positive aspects of this change.
As mentioned yes gaining necessary resources and gold can sometimes allow construction of a building that causes new tech to be openned that can be had before next turn increments or just allow purchase of a tech so that the benefits of it can be had on next turn So this change in that respect shows that it can be a boon to liven the pace of the game somewhat which helps to maintain interest by giving a player a sense of accomplishment with a small reward for his efforts.

Also how many of us have had the experience of actually being online at exactly the same time as our opponent/s in a campaign and getting beat to an attack or move and know the frustration and humiliation of trying to move a unit that has already been destroyed? Granted one time I did have this experience it was during one of our last "server problems" and to be perfectly honest I couldn't be sure at the time that we were having a "server problem" or if my problem was trying to compete with an opponent who was not only faster with his mouse but possibly had a faster connection also. My "56K" connection was getting "locked" and then getting "broken" and I was reconnecting to find that my opponent had made all of his moves and literally devastated my units. I'm not so sure that the results wouldn't be similar with or without "server problems".

Anyway has anyone listed that tactic under "strategies" (i.e. have a faster connection and plan your moves in advance so that you can "click your mouse" faster than your opponent)?
I think it should be tested somehow (i.e. the results of a campaign battle/war between opponents online at the same time with different connection speeds (i.e. especially one with only "56K")) because I'm still not so sure the problems I was having were only due to the "server problem". In any event I certainly don't think that having to be "quick to click" should be of any significance in a good strategy game and hopefully connection speed is not also a factor but I'm not so sure that it isn't. I would actually be in favor of some kind of program instruction that "overides who moves first" in such close quarter moves and then "randomizes the first attack advantage".

As our numbers increase I think the possibilities of close encounters will increase but I have already stated somewhere that I don't seem to find that there are many players who don't make adequate appearances in a game. However I also tend to think that increased numbers will tend to cause balance in that all of us will find that we all have the same problems to a greater or lesser degree with also "frequent onliners" encountering "frequent onliners" and the more ways that we can find to avoid direct confrontations where our skills with the mouse become a big part of the determining factor may IMO be desirable but please don't misunderstand.
Direct confrontations are great but how can someone complain about "frequent online advantages" if they are gaining an advantage in a direct confrontation by being more skillful to make their moves faster again along with the possibility of the advantages of a faster connection?

PS:
I think a greater problem than the advantages of "frequent onliners" is the advantage of being "quicker to click/move" when opponents are all online in campaign battle/war along with possibly faster connections and I wish some suggestions could be made to alleviate those other problems because this is a "great strategy game" and Not an "arcade game".

TR

Last Edited : Friday, 14 January 2005 - 07:54

I would assume that having resources come in at a fraction every tick is a good thing.

Example:
Say you make 50,000 per year, do you get all that in one lump sum or do you get it in small sums as time goes by?

Now to balance that I would say keep the troop production the same as it was.

Example:
Training recruits is usually done in groups of 20-30, not 5-6. So Let the troops come out at the turn's end, but have the resources slowly trickle in. So now if a person logs on more than the other they will have the resources, but not the troops.

Now a person will deploy their troops (or save them) at the turn's start, then 6 tick later when they have the resources they can then purchace upgrades/techs or deploy the saved troops.

the problem with having game incomes (troops or resources) only once per turn, is that it makes the exact hour you log in very important.

in a 12hr game, those that log in right after the turn update have an 11hr advantage over those who can only log in at the end of the turn.

and what happens if you can only log in right before a 12hr turn (due to work,etc), and even worse, cant log in until the end of the next turn!
you'd be in BIG trouble.

at least this way, it doesnt matter what exact time you log in. so long as its approx 1 turns length, you can still do stuff.

what we need to focus on is preventing the often-onliner from getting huge advantages in combat.
i think the first step is stopping movement every tick.

I think we are in agreement on the idea of not giving too much importance to logging in exactly at the turn increment but we are saying it differently because although I agree there is an advantage to avoiding being attacked and other possible maneuvering by frequently logging in, I don't really think it is nearly the advantage of being more skillful with the mouse along with a faster connection which IMO is one of the reasons a person tends to frequently log in (i.e. to avoid those confrontations where IMO his opponent has an advantage for various reasons).

Again please don't get me wrong because there is something very positive about having all your moves planned in advance and then entering the game and making all of your attacks and moves even without stopping to refresh the screen after an attack but I do think it is a "fast action advantage" not necessarily having anything to do with strategy and also a faster connection is an advantage for doing those refreshes to make second attacks and adjustments to moves. However I don't think this problem will "blossom" until our numbers increase to where it becomes a frequent occurence.

How often does it occur now (i.e. how often do people find that they are wasting time trying to move a unit that has already been destroyed because their opponent was just too much quicker to do his moves in a direct confrontation)? I think the chances of occurence will increase with our numbers and then we will see which is the greater advantage or problem.
In the meantime I am happy that I think we are on the same "wave length" about taking the importance of the "turn increment" away because yes IMO that is part of all of the problem/s that everything seems to hinge on the "turn of events".
Please pardon the play on words.

TR

I think this new way works ok, it makes it more of a challenge.

I think tick based is very good and positive. It stops the problem of having to be around exactly when the next turn starts nad is more even and fair.

definatly a good idea..it makes the game more fluid.
its not all based around your turn...very good job Req

i like the idea of the tick base. i'm glad u dicided to try my idea of it. real cool!!!

Redards:
Kingmen3

Req - I'm glad you decided to follow my idea and create WOL. I told you it will be good and people will like it. Cool!


But seriously... the tick based idea is awful! It took all the fun out of the turn changing and training units of soldiers rather than a steady, trickling stream of fighters... reminds me of my prostate!

CHANGE BACK TO TURN BASED. Please.

LOL!!! Naa!!

Last Edited : Wednesday, 19 January 2005 - 10:28

Req, I will repeat just in case you haven't seen the previous post:

THE TICK BASED GAME SPEED IS AWFUL! It puts us in the same bracket as the stupid text games that abound and take much of the fun out of the game.

But, since it is here already and until you change it back to turn base we must deal with it, there's one thing you forgot. [And lets see how all you tick based lovers, deal with that.]

If troops production AND resource generation are tick based, shouldn't BANDITS reproduction be also tick based?! Let the bandits have the same reproduction and growth rate to be similar to troop production, as it was during the turn based era.

TRSPB (The Royal Society for the Protection of Bandits)

Good idea, Rog I will add to your idea. Why dont we make new techs available after each tick and completely encourage being online for every tick. We get money at every tick so why dont we get new techs at the tick?
Change it back, Req. This change is terrible.

TL

I think is great!.

If you look at the whole idea if your turn is not exactly at the turn of the game, then it is the same for everyone.

Let's say it's custom made turns. So everyone can log in at their available time.

Exactly
No one can say it quite like "Gueritol"

TR

Thanks TR!.

I think Rog's idea is very important, either all is tied to 1 turn tick, or all is tied to hourly ticks.

So monsters should tick at the hour

I sorta agree that this takes all the fun out of turn changes...I barely pay attention to when the turn changes anymore. *shrugs*