this is a car the current pope Benedikt has driven:

cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=68191&item=4545301886&rd=1

I've been saving all of my socks since childhood, so when I become famous I can sell stupid crap on ebay too!

how much american money is that car?

over $43.000! so far.

Perhaps you should try this link to c a translation(not that good ):


babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?url=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.de%2Fws%2FeBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26category%3D68191%26item%3D4545301886&lp=de_en

I don't know why people are getting so excited about this pope or car... personally I get very nervous watching a German standing on a balcony preaching with thousands cheering for him...

I think everybody has that problem with a German

Come on! That was 60 years ago.

(Stands next to Jodocus) Yeah! Us Germans don't mass murder jews anymore! hmph...

(Demosthenes sulks away)

Last Edited : Monday, 2 May 2005 - 01:11

Very conservative looking car.
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7669225/

PS:
Yes I'm sorry, but I don't think the world can expect the youth of an entire nation to live in the shadow of the guilt of some of their grandfathers;
and I believe that one of the reasons Pope Benedict XVI was chosen is to express just that.
Here is a man who was an innocent victim of circumstances whose father was a policeman in his local town who refused to join the Nazi party but the boy was forced to join the Hitler youth at age 14 and then later was also inducted into the army as an anti-aircraft helper where at least he was lucky enough not to have even had to fire a shot.

If you have seen the Pope as a boy, he has the look of innocence and his parents have a look that is pure of heart. I have no hatred for anyone or for any people but yes I am a Roman Catholic with the religious training of the Catholics before the second Vatican counsel. If that classes me as "devout" so be it but I don't recall making any *big deal* about insisting to eat fish on Friday or anything like that.

Anyway supposedly Pope Benedict XVI is quite conservative and the far left seems to be very upset about it. I just hope he is conservative enough to know when to stop "turning the other cheek" because yes ... admittedly the Catholic Church is in need of a good "House cleaning", and I understand this Pope is just the man to accomplish that;
but the Roman Catholic Church IMO has also been unfairly under attack for many undeserved reasons from various sources and I think this Pope may be just the one to set the record straight once and for all.
Viva Il Papa

TR

Every time I think you can’t be more unbelievable you surprise me anew. Well done TR, you outdid yourself again.

Where did you come up with this idiocy about “youth of an entire nation to live in the shadow of the guilt of some of their grandfathers”? Who says they have to feel guilty? Who even talked about youth? Let me tell you something… no one asked the German youth to live in guilt and no one blames them for the actions of their forefathers. Germans have handled the whole WW2 outcome in a typical relentless way, they study it, and learn from it, and today Germany is one of the most socially open and aware countries. I wish many more countries will be as diligent about their duties to remembering the past and studying it, so we wouldn’t get comments like the ones above from Judocus and Demo. BTW, I also hold a German passport and think nothing foul of young German generations. If anything, there’s much to learn from them about social awareness.

And as far as the guilty conscience is concerned, then let me tell you that we SHOULD all live under the horrible death-black shadow of some of out forefathers actions. The whole world is responsible for what happened in WW2 (and I’m not talking just about the Holocaust but the whole war) and it’ll do us all well to have that shadow guide us in preventing it from happening again, actively or passively. But that is beside the point … you obviously chose to ignore the joke made by an _AMERICAN_ comedian (Dennis Miller if you must know), which I plagiarised here-above and instead you chose to make an issue out of it.

Obviously that is not enough for you…

Now we are grateful to know that you have the inner knowledge of the Cardinal’s conclave, and their reasons for choosing a German pope. Thank you for telling us that the current pope was chosen because he is German. I wonder if we should be more grateful for God’s need to show us the good side of Germans or for your ability to decipher the conclave’s actions for us. Do you really believe he was chosen because he is German?! I pity your church if that is the reason. Shouldn’t he have been chosen because of his religious attitude or devoutness? And if not, and he WAS chosen because he is German, how does that make him God’s top man on earth? Or maybe you know something about God’s interest in our human politics, that we as non-Catholics are unprivileged in knowing?

cont...

Then you do even better with your personality test based on pictures; “If you have seen the Pope as a boy, he has the look of innocence and his parents have a look that is pure of heart.” I don’t even know where to start on that backwards remark of yours. Clearly the look of innocence shines through, which we should all have noticed immediately as qualifying him to be pope. Or maybe this innocent look is enough to convince us that there is no way he could have been involved in some of the horrible acts of WW2? How brainless can you be? Have you seen Saddam Hussein’s childhood pictures or Hitler’s? How about the life size portraits of some of the earlier ages grand-scale killers? Or maybe you are a believer in the stereotypical archetypes of racial faces? Maybe the shape of his skull will show us how divine he is. You’ll justify anything to show us why this pope is the man for the job… just like some pop-star’s fans who view him as a living saint regardless of whatever he does… and funny how in both cases, child-molestation comes to mind.

As far as this pope’s “conservative views and the left being upset about it”; maybe he will stop “"turning the other cheek"” and maybe if we’re lucky enough he’ll bring the inquisition back. What puzzles me is how this church with all its power and many believers is able to manage itself so badly, getting entangled in so many questionable actions and decisions. How the leaders of this church have such strong and decisive views on abortion, gay marriages or female priests yet are unable to find a satisfactory solution to the abundant child molestation occurrences by its own clergy. It’s a good thing there are other Roman Catholics who ARE more enlightened than you TR, and who perhaps will bring this church and its followers some relief. I will be happy if this pope does just that, yet at his age, his selection for the position seems more as a convenience for the cardinals’ conclave rather then because of him being German or because of his ideologies.

I was only joking i have no problem with Germans at this point cause it was 60 years ago... they only smell a bit , but ok i can forgive them for not use deodorant

Also i have no problem with a german pope and i think that what Benedictus did as a child shouldn't matter , he was young and he couldn't choose for himself because he was threatened by the nazi's.

i hope he is a good pope , but i still think that this thread is about the car and not about whether the pope is a good pope or not!

Wow the pope can drive manual.

Yes and only 47000 original miles.
I don't think the Pope is a "motormouth"
but he can probably say,
"Go fly a kite in ten different languages."

TR

Current price 61000 €

It'd like to see him at the drags :p

well just to be blunt i would say that i dont think a former natzi should be pope
the church has done alot to reconsile whith the jewish peoples in the last few decades affter along history of lets say "dissrespect"

im shure there was alot of good choices for pope and the fact is that the choice of pope is a VERY polical thing. I just think it sends the wrong mgs to the jewish people and will no doubt be taken that way by at least a few rabbies

this is just my opinion and of cource his acctions will speak for themselfs but right off the getgo i thing it was counterprodutive to the work of john paul 11

I don't like gray cars.

PS:

Crest
I'm just going to say as briefly as possible in this thread of VivaChe's that is supposed to be about the Pope's old car, where I have already ventured off-topic and I don't really feel justified to defend my post for ONE reason being that I would be wrong to pursue an off-topic argument in this thread, that you are entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitiled to my opinion;

and to whom it may concern,
when I say,
"and I believe that one of the reasons",
the words "I believe" are reasonably synonomous with the words "in my opinion" (i.e. IMO)
and the words "one of the reasons" means that there may be other reasons;
and I certainly do believe and even do know that there are other reasons why Pope Benedict XVI was chosen.

The Pope was chosen on 4/19/05; it is now 5/01/05 and my first post was made here on 4/30/05;
So that means that there is no reason why I shouldn't know as of yesterday the identity of the Pope as well as other pertinent information about him;
and there was very much speculation in the media as to who would be the next Pope as well as comments on his possible nationality because yes I have read that even politics are considered when selecting the Pope.

Basicly the political speculation of the media has been that Pope John Paul II was able to solidify the Polish Catholic following and because of the closeness of Pope Benedict XVI to the former Pope he has been able to hold the Polish Catholics to him and hopefully the Germans will warm to him also.
I have even read that this Pope's attitude concerning Catholics who think the Church should be bent and changed to conform to them MAY be that the Church can get along without them.
That may be ONE way also IMO to deal with the problem of ordaining priests who become a liability.

PPS:
I will also say that it takes me very long to compose some of my posts, especially those where I have to be very careful how I word them;
and my FIRST post HERE was intended to be BEFORE the ONE that was made BEFORE IT.
I'm not going to go into details or try to drag down quotes, but if anyone is expecting me to answer any sarcastic and insulting questions I suggest they not hold their breath and I also do appreciate NOT being misquoted.
ONE last thing concerning the Popes appearance to me as a boy is that it was also my opinion and I think the only ONE with whom I need concern myself about it is the Pope.

Sorry for the off-topic post VivaChe.

TR

Last Edited : Sunday, 1 May 2005 - 03:41

Yet another rich post TR. Well done!

“I'm just going to say as briefly as possible” and yet you post a full (near 2000 characters) post. We’re used to your blabbering; you don’t need to excuse yourself.
“that it takes me very long to compose some of my posts”
followed by
“my FIRST post HERE was intended to be BEFORE the ONE that was made BEFORE IT”
TR, you’re a star!

“I would be wrong to pursue an off-topic argument in this thread” no you won’t! and besides, since when did that ever stop you?! I am SURE (big word) that Viva intended us all to discuss the pope’s car in details, maybe even argue about technical details of pope driven VW Golf’s compared to regular ones,… maybe also debate former pope’s transport methods. Ooo… let’s keep on topic here, we must, let no one disrupt the topic of conversation…

[Side note: thanks Viva I think the topic and advertisement are quite funny. I wonder how much will it finally sell for…? ]

As far as this pope is concerned… whatever the reasons for his selection were, I hope just like you TR, that he does his job well and bring much needed help to over a billion of followers who desperately need him. I suggest you start TR with a few ‘Hail…’ … … hmm no, actually just go with a few ‘Hello Dolly’s’,… it’ll do you good.




@CREST – while there IS a lot of concern about this new pope’s intentions or policies, we all hope that he will prove to follow the previous pope’s work and continue to strengthen the relations with Jewish leaders worldwide. I wish he would do diligent work with all religions and strengthen ties with all of them, as religious tolerance between devout leaders of all faiths is EXTREMELY important. I think humanity paid enough through crusades, jihads and other similar instruments of religious intolerance.
As far as the message it sends to Jews, I agree that this is slightly dubious, but there are mitigating circumstances and hopefully he will prove our concerns wrong. I would have loved to see a Black pope just as much as I would have loved to see a Black/Woman president in the USA, but many times people just fall back to the same old trusted models rather than truly risk true equality. So maybe they chose this pope because in a political sense they are comfortable with a hard-liner, German pope or maybe because he IS the better man for the job. I say we give him a chance and _pray_ he does well.

Anyone hear the latest value of the car?

PS:
Folks I WAS brief to explain to Crest that he was entitled to his opinion. I would like to have said more to him but I didn't.
Also I just like to keep the record straight that my first post in this thread was intended to be before the ONE that was made by someone else before it. My first post here wasn't intended to condone callous remarks.
However, please don't take anything I've said here as an apology or an excuse because I haven't said anything that requires ONE.

TR