I figure the other vets will already know 99% of what's in this thread, but we'll see...

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This thread has a little history attached to it...

For a while I'd been thinking about getting 'back into the groove' as regards playing, but never really getting around to it.

Then, a couple of days ago, Game 15 rather unexpectedly filled up. Presumably because the entire BoS caln has just turned up ;-)

I decided to get this practice in sooner rather than later because it was looking decidedly like I was going to get a high-profile thrashing in this game. So I hurriedly lined up some battle games to play...and as luck would have it, Ultima Bahamut was the guy in question. He'd never even played a battle game before - but hey - I needed the practice right?

Anyway, during that first game he asked for 'mentoring'. And having heard about Sugarleo, his mentoring programme and his zillions of awe-struck fans, how could I refuse? :-)

Next day...(yesterday going into this morning)

3 more battle games for Ultima. I lined up as many different sides as I could for him, partly so he experience a variety of tactics and partly so I could see if they worked or not. And now - the 'morning after' (or in this case, night), I've had some thoughts on it all...

He faced four main sides:

1st - Medieval range/power mix
2nd - Demonic power side
3rd - Medieval ranged
4th - Medieval power side

Mass basic units isn't a viable option in battle games because unlike with the more powerful units you can't get everyone into combat at once - e.g. easy for 3 demigod stacks to all attack in a turn, not so easy for 20 scout stacks...

So. 1st game I took - it was Ultima's first time so no real surprise.
2nd game. Again, took him by surprise, as he'd never really fought this kind of side before. He performed a little better, but i still got a comfortable win.

The next two sides were more experimental...

3rd - mass ballista, with a scout (to scout) and spearmen as a delaying stop gap. The ballista turned out not to be as hot as I hoped, but the did their job. The game got a little when he attempted to carry out two simultaneous flanking moves with knights and marksmen. But still it's mine...

4th - mass heavy cavalry. This side went wrong more or less as soon as I noticed the demonic opposition (demon lords) so it's no surprise I eventually lost this one. Resulted in the Psych warfare thread

(cont.)

The analysis....

As I said before, I've tried out nearly all the possible (and reasonable) combinations of troops possible now. Mass basic is not an option because you'd never get the full use out of them.

The first side (mixed range/power) is not an extreme, more of a compromise.

That leaves power medi, power demonic and ranged medi.

Power medi vs Power demonic (battle 4) has proven that in a straight fight demonic will always win out amongst balanced players. So heavy cavalry should now be considered a redundant unit in the face of demigods, but not in campaigns as demonic has not shown up there yet...!

We now have two major picks left - medi ranged or demonic power. And even amongst those two, my fight a while back with Boe shows that at the end of the day medi ranged just about has the edge. So massed ranged is the best option in a battle game. I'm not saying it can't be beaten by a power side, I'm just saying that if you have two more or less equal players that demonic will probably lose out in the end unless you can get your opponent to make a mistake...

What applies for battle games also applies to campaigns. A matching power side vs ranged side will almost always result in the power side being wiped out, especially now with all the recent emphasis on defensive fortifications. That, in turn, tells you in advance you'll need all the wood you can get and rules out structures such as palisades (in favour of building stone walls instead).
Of course, that's only a sampler. I'm already working on back-up plans should the trading market fail me later in Game 15, and lots more besides - most of which I would assume our vets already know about - but a) this is a battle tactics post and b) I ain't giving away ALL of my strategy in advance to the rest of Game 15...!

There are some other possible oddball strategies that may affect battle games. Untested is the effect of a castle bonus if any and the potential effects of "Troop of the day".
Also yet to be examined is the effectiveness ratio of the units, (i.e. damage per points value, health per points value) which may affect the choice of which specific "power" troop or "ranged" troop to use.
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This has been a public information 'analysis by scientific method' post by your favourite vicious three-headed poochie (I figured this info was worthwhile for EVERYONE to read and not just Ultima...)

Pre-typed because I won't be able to be online much today after yesterday's 8-9 hour battle games epic... :-)

Tests complete.

Ballista = average 1 point of damage for 13.7 game points.
Marksmen = average 1 point of damage for 16.66667 game points.

Ballista are the better pick for battle games unless you're keeping the number of units down.

Sorry CTD, but whats that mean? I guess I don't know what "game points" are? Just trying to make sure that I understand...

The points you start a game with e.g. 4000 points in Novice 4. The points you use to pay for your troops.

Also...

As there are actually 10 figures in each stack, those figures should be 1.37 and 1.666667. Not that it matters, the point stands :-)

Ahhhh! Sorry, I need to pay better attention. Never played a battle game and I didn't notice that you were talking about battle games, even though you said "battle game". :-((

Now my turn for a question...has anyone ever had more than 20 stacks in a battle game, or does the game restrict you? If so, there are times when you'd have no realistic choice but to go with marksmen over ballista.

Edit - I've just fielded 31 stacks. I guess not! :-)

Last Edited : Friday, 27 December 2002 - 02:32

More useful data, until Req or Pro or someone can produce a manual page with this on...

Joining Game : Novice 5. Class : Medieval

You must now select what type of armies you wish to start with.
You can select up to 2500 points worth of armies. Each army has 10 troops.
Troop Health Damage Attack Defend Points

Spearmen 20 3-5 6 4 50
Swordsmen 24 4-6 5 7 60
Archers 20 4-7 6 3 70
Commandeers 12 1-2 3 5 70
Scouts 30 5-8 7 8 75
Arbelestiers 26 7-9 10 9 100
Pikemen 40 7-11 12 11 112
Battering Rams 40 15-20 8 14 112
Squires 44 8-12 11 14 126
Ballista 30 9-14 14 6 158
Falchioniers 60 10-18 17 14 185
Macemen 72 14-22 16 20 222
Marksmen 66 18-26 18 10 300
Catapults 60 50-60 14 10 360
Knights 120 24-38 20 20 400
Heavy Cavalry 180 36-56 24 24 600

Selected Armies :

Points : 0 / 2500


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Joining Game : Novice 5. Class :

You must now select what type of armies you wish to start with.
You can select up to 2500 points worth of armies. Each army has 10 troops.
Troop Health Damage Attack Defend Points
Squinch 12 2-3 4 4 27
Neehts 8 2-3 4 3 33
Nnargles 15 2-4 5 5 37
Baow Demons 18 3-5 6 6 48
Cjaar Demons 27 5-8 7 8 78
Quonos Demons 32 6-9 9 9 92
Scorpies 34 7-11 12 9 112
Summonners 20 4-7 10 10 120
Boulder Demons 36 14-24 10 8 120
Rohnk Giants 50 20-30 8 14 140
Preatacs 48 10-15 15 14 158
Orphaths 64 12-17 14 16 184
Wyngerns 80 16-25 17 17 280
Shaevars 155 30-48 20 24 514
Demon Lords 220 44-70 26 22 720
DemiGods 340 75-110 28 24 1300

Selected Armies :

Points : 0 / 2500

the forum says tactics but i dont think any has posted up this one:

build alot of scouts,go around your base so theres 4 scoutsaround it,it should pick up a base/people. get a spearsman and walk up to it,if the user is online he may get his guy and place it near you. now keep doing this and if there is a bush the to sides of you good, hide your commando's/arhers etc near the bushes so user cant see you.

now the enemy guy is inside,you have jus surrounded him(them). now for the easy bit,place every one to attack him.

now thts what i call a needle in a haystack. can i have a review on this 'tatic'?

.....LOL......

ayder, I have reviewed your tactic, and I cannot find any flaws. This should change the way the game is played! Now everyone will start surrounding castles with scouts, and hiding in the bushes!! I for one am going to start looking behind every bush in my territory, and I'm going to start doing it now!

it sounds like your taking the mickey....

LMAO!

I dun understand what ayder is talking about. Can someone rephase?

Me neither

I think IŽll stick to my old tactic, to keep the enemy out of my castle, kill them on sight and ask questions later:-)

Maybe if it were split down into separate points...

It's obvious what he's saying,a simple tactic for the start of the game .Have 4 stacks of scouts head off in different directions from the castle,follow them up with spears and have archers with comms ready for an am...an amb...
Sorry,can't seem to finish word...must...stop..laughing.

Thats pretty good tarim, I really didn't get all that from it. But I did find 2 stacks of enemy troops under some bushes today!!!

(as always aydar, don't mind me, i just like to amuse myself...)

I lost 90 Ballista behind a bush for a couple of turns!
Damn careless of me i know,but scoff as we may,ayder's right about stealth.I've been hidden behind outposts b4 and had the enemy run straight past,exposing their weak underbelly or at least their slowcoach comms.
This doesn't work near your enemy's castle cos when their map loads troops can be clearly seen b4 the buildings load.