You tell em Rog ... although I'm one of the players who likes to specify which race beforehand. I get asked often what strategy I use, and I always get a laugh out of it. I'm constantly changing and tweeking formations, trying to find that extra edge. Boulders are now weaker ... ok then, I may find myself playing demonic more often. IMO, the flying units are equivelant to the ranged units of medieval ... properly used, maybe even more effective.

I'll bite the bullet Rog, I think this change makes sense ... and it will make for more interesting demonic battles.

Pimp

ROG I can agree with that. But i still don't see whats the fuss about!? Demons haven't got any ranged troops exept boulders. And although they allready move very slow compared with marksmen now there is another moving penalty on them? And what's the talk about "in normal warfare you'll know what race you're up against". That's a lot of bullsh..! Look at Nam and Afganistan fe. They thought they were fighting regulars and ended up fighting grandpa's/ma's women and children and everything else that could kill! It's not like the allies knew what they were up against when they fought Japan! They never contemplated kamikaze planes and in Korea they didn't expect WW1 tactics on storming defensive positions with lots of soldiers and thus lots of casualties! As far as i'm concerned most people posting on this forum belong in the Napoleontic wars!!!! Greets and thanx again!

Interesting Michyl, but irrelevant as normal warfare allows you the ability to adapt whereas in the waronline battle, there is no such option - you're left to make the best of what you've got.
I don't play battles, so don't care particularly, but it seems to me that anything which encourages a player to choose a wide variety of pieces, makes for a better battle.

As an additional thought, perhaps if you could see your opponents pieces before battle, then get a chance to change 1/3 or 1/2 of your points it would make for more interesting battles.

Now a couple of you guys are whining on the notice board that now demons stand no chance against medi. Well evidently, thats because you have no clue as to how to battle with them without boulders.

I hope you realize that now you have just become the 'profesional complainer' Rog, and a lot of the things you have said and brought up can now be used against you.


And truthfully dude, massing one unit with a couple others for clean up really involves no strategy and skill. Now you're forced to use a more diverse demonic army and some skill, and you're whining about it. This game is a strategy game, its the biggest part of the game, so get used to it. You ought to be happy that you are now being forced to use some actual skill and strategy.

Last Edited : Thursday, 27 November 2003 - 12:35

I agreed with cat up to that last paragraph, your army should be able to deal with what comes at you in any situation (albeit, not expertly in every sitiuation). That just wouldn't work.

Michyl makes a good point, and I agree, but only to a point. Yes there are surprises, even in medi vs medi that people aren't expecting. Canges in tactics and unit choice can baffle an opponent and win you a battle. However, do you think the Americans were preparing California and Washingington (state) for long range bombing attacks during the Vietnam war? Of course not, because they knew that that nation could not support such an attack. Now what if they didn't know for sure, and they made provisions for it anyway (not drastic ones, but a good amount), when they realized this fact they would be stuck with 'worthless' units that could have been better utilized.

The races are so different, especially now with the elimination of boulders (and demonic ranged) that not knowing beforehand causes problems for both sides. I'll say again, it shouldn't destroy your game strategy, but it will definantly put you at a slight disadvantage if you use a diverse army (and several of your troops don't have any real use). Tactics/set ups can be race specific (I think) but not army specific.

well, now this topic can take a back seat-- boulders arent as powerful anymore-- so anyone who says that midi cant beat demonic is full of crap

its fairly even now

I'd like to see Demonic beat Medieval now, anyone up for to the challenge?...

Any seasoned Demonic players out there?

Prematch conditions will take away suprises, but the reason why people did that was because they only wanted a some what balanced game, or what they thought as to be a balanced game.

Wonder if boulder stacked tacticians will be able to cope with the changes...

boulders strats are almost killed
i mean you can kill them now with the simplelist of strats

seige aren't meant for battle games anyway

Ok, guys this is my last post in this topic... I really don't know what you're whining about!? You're all or were all complaining about the boulder set-up. Ok now that's fixed (I wouldn't call it that way but ok for your sake I will). Can we go on and battle it out now? Maybe now you can start complaining about setup like HC and Marksmen, Marksmen and Mace etc. No diversity there? But you know what best thing would be not to whine but to WIN! If you think a certain set-up is not fair or whatever... just find a better set-up and beat them! It's WARonline and not DIPLOMACYonline or SCIENCEonline you know! Greetings to you all!

haha...you realy want to fight again don't you....hehe...nice fiery attitude!

But I have to agree with you there Michyl, there will be different strategies we will complain about later, but then again, that's good....makes the game ironed out of inbalances....it's our jobs as beta testers....

I haven't seen an effecient HC-Mark recently. And my Mace-mark strat got beaten by a complete novice (they'd taken a knight-mark strat...)

There's a big diversity of tactics, it's just some are more effecient than others...

It's unlikely that a top player is going to constantly take HC-marks, as people will soon start using pikes and mace to wipe them out, so they'll alternate between that and something else (poss. involving paper, like a mass squire attack) instant diversity


Kyrion

michyl
now some of us have been here longer then you and just because you like cheating with the damned boulders doesn't mean you have to take our pooint well we won't whine about hc and marks because it is beatable by alot of things the boulders were beaten by only a few diffrent strats that is why we were mad about it

Im quite happy with the balancing now. Boulders were the only troop that was way out of whack. I agree that maybe the lower level demon troops need just a pinch more power, then it would be perfect. So no, Im not going to whine about any other troops because theres a diverse range of choices at your fingertips that have good chances of beating HC and marks and any other setup.

feh... what's with all the 1 and 2 troop type strategies? My best formation includes 4 different types to cover a few different things that could be thrown at me. It worked better than I expected last time I used it, actually...

You'd be surprised Kyrion, many high level players do play HC-Marks to great effect. Few people even use knights now because of that (though, as a novice, thats what I took as well).

Michyl, its obvious you haven't yet read my "what to talk about" thread in the strat forum: I've been slamming HC for quite a while now, even calling them the antichrist of battlegames . In short, I'm sick of seeing one and two unit set ups played over and over agian. It is simple, and can be very effective, but it has obvious counter strats that can ruin the your battle plans and it doesn't allow for complex strategy (you have so few units, usually, that you have to use them as one massive block).

But I'm not saying HC are the problem, I'm saying that using them in mass quantity (over 50% of your army pts) isn't the most effective route to go. I've lost to the set up, and I've beaten it, but I 'can' win against most any set up (no real counter set up) and explore many different tactics. I'm saying that if HC aren't doing it for you, don't resign yourself to them because you think that you need them to win. As Protonman discovered, diversity can be a more powerful weapon then you think (and players don't have to play and alternate set up like Kyrion suggested).

You're right about vets not taking knights very much, and it's amazing how new players take them (lured in by the promise of free hits!).
I find it rather risky to just take 1 troop type (and range) though, even a newbie can beat a mace-mark if they happen to take half their points in knights (4 knights in a 3000 point game!), or Shaevars I 'spose (having recently faced some, a demon force with no boulders, no-one would have believed it a few weeks back!)

* feels proud that his post is slightly on topic *

* Forgets what he was saying *

Um, yeah.. And knight-mark (???), or squire-mark (slightly more feasible) gets ground down by HC. And HC-Mark is easy to beat by simply having mace, pike and more range in low point games (where they'll need at least half their points in HC). High point games makes HC-Mark a better proposition (6000 points allows 4 HC and over half the points on something else).


To elaborate on my original point the possible reason that I haven't seen an effective HC-Mark (outside Practice5) is because I have only had one game in the past 15+ over 3000 points (nice small forces means greater emphasis on selection and tactics...)


Kyrion

Hmm,Shaevars were better than DemonLords yesterday but Wyngerns are generally more cost effective,due to their versatility.Other than that,are you on smart drugs or something Kyrion cos you're spot on.
I still go with Knights sometimes but it's wise to take along a stack of HC to look after em.
Too many HC in a force is just dinner for Demons.

I've tried doing that kyrion, but most vets don't want to play low pt games. So I usually bite the bullet and go 4k+ pts. At the 4k level players are still using 3-4 HC, and that can get dicey if you don't have adequate rock units. Below that your wasting your time with HC (though I have seen a few players use a few in those games, thats basicly all the units they could field).