That has been an issue for a month...Read the bug forum and you'll see it's been there awhile...

9is it in THE CLAN TOURNEY RULES.....did i overlook this or something?????is it there?if not then i do not see much of an argument.

to put it plainly, the only enforceable bugs are the ones that are disallowed. I will post them here.

Here is a list of some of the known glitches that will be allowed:

1. Attacking walls / buildings or resource piles from more than 1 hex.
2. All barbarians / bandits / Renegades must be killed before taking over resources building.
3. Outpost upgrading??? (Too hard to police, consider it a tech) Everyone be aware that upgrading one outpost will give the extra 4 hexes to all outposts.

Other glitches will not be allowed during this Tournament.

1. Building units with a pop of greater than 999.
2. Moving units into unfinished buildings.


Basically what it came down to is would we be able to police a certain action or not, because most players don't play how the game is ment to be played, it was decided that only things that can be kept in check would be considered cheating.

Personally, I wish all bugs could be enforced, because even the so called top players who exploit bugs in regular games and think they are skillfull; would need to play with more skill to be considered the top.

But that's my soap box, so I have spoken enough of that here.

("is it there?if not then i do not see much of an argument." - UB

Precisely UB, without it being listed in the not allowed glitches there isn't much of an argument to be made ).

Lord Fanatic chortled. Months earlier he had embarked on a bold plan to kidnap the delivery personal carrying the personal telegrams to the AAA infidels informing them of the new barracks intensive training program. He had been worried when the town crier had cried out about it in the streets of the cities, fortunately the AAA had stayed at home that day. He had been worried when it had been printed in several prominent newspapers, but it seems they didn't subscribe to any of the prominent newspapers. So his plan had worked afterall and the AAA had been taken completely unawares and were now vastly outnumbered.

lol, thats a great ending to the tale of a bug's life

Well as the tournament organiser I feel I need to make a judgment on this…….

As the rules of the Tourny state that only enforceable bugs will not be allowed, this leaves the use this bug in the game. However, I believe that the idea of stating all the known bugs in the rules thread would then counteract any unfair advantage gained by one side using a bug and not the other. It is MY fault that I didn’t add this bug to the rules thread and therefore it cannot be assumed that all players would know about it.

To the FSA players, you have done nothing wrong in the eyes of this tournament, but as we all know (now) of the unfairness of this bug that this clan game is really not a fair contest anymore.

To the AAA players, I am personally refusing to play games now because of this bug. I feel it was used against me but I can’t prove it …..of course and it was only after my downfall that I found out about the bug,as I dont read the bugs forum very often. So I understand your frustration, however some of your clan did know about this bug prior to the commencement of the game and I guess should of informed the rest of your team.

I believe in the interests of a fair game that clan game 22 should be restarted and I’ll take full responsibility for not making the bug known in the forums. No one else is at fault.

(Timing of the game is not an issue as the BoS / IJA game is only starting now)

I applaud Fulcrum for taking a stand on this issue, although it is a risky stand. Given everything I've read, and past interactions with some players, I can only hope that ALL members of FSA and AAA abide by this decision ASAP. Get the game restarted within the next day and you've not lost much time, and it doesn't extend the availability requirement that long.

There may never be a time when the individual members of these two clans set aside their contempt for each other, and personally, I wouldn't expect anything but animosity. Still, I <know> that everyone involved would like a "clean" game to stand upon and make their claim of Top Clan.

BTW, when it is Turn 26 and your enemy is only producing basic units in large numbers, it is kind of a clue as to what is happening, Fulcrum. Most players would have more advanced units by that point. Right, Devil Dog?

I agree with Fulcrum. It was also my personal opinion. The game should be restarted as no large discussion and no clear decision was taken about that bug.
I can confirm that I never heard of it before yesterday.
I should assume that also my clanmates were not aware of it because they didnt tell me nothing.
I dont know if Ultima Bahamut was aware of it, but he didnt use.

PS - If the game will be restarted, I invite anyone FSA friend to come to my castle, take over my barracks and count my armies, before I quit, to verify my words.

ALL participates please hold....don't quit the game yet. AAA members, you'll receive a msg from me....FSA, I'm msg'g now....don't quit until you read my message.

I find this portion of Fulcrom's text the most interesting

To AAA players ..... So I understand your frustration, however some of your clan did know about this bug prior to the commencement of the game and I guess should of informed the rest of your team.

So assuming that there is truth in that statment.. then all these complaints have been more whining that we have seen in past games and the current one... I guess what ever excuse it takes when your being beaten for the 3rd time. hey, maybe the 4th time will be the charm, or the 15th time.. someday you might actually beat us.

Now if the statement by fulcrom is not correct, then feel free to ignore some of this post.

If we do a restart.. August 1st should be good.

Last Edited : Friday, 14 May 2004 - 19:16

well congrats sugar.. Fanatic has already left the game..

pathetic.

Edit:
I am following the sentiments of Fan, and Fulcrom, I won't be playing non-clan games, till this bug is resolved.

Last Edited : Friday, 14 May 2004 - 19:48

SO if there were members of AAA that new about the bug, as I have already said there was and as Fulcrum alluded to, then this was just a trick by Sugar to keep from loosing?

Unacceptible behavior.

If one memberof AAA new about this bug and they still complained about it they need to be removed from this tournament. This was just a trick to keep from loosing again.

Now I got to figure out how I can get a lineup that can make the majority of this game since we got to restart because Sugar cant read a stupid forum thread and because he delayed our start for almost 2 weeks.

I'm really upset, I am really really really really upset. Just dont send me any messages for a few days, I'll stay out of the forums, maybe I'll cool off by Monday.

Give me a freak'n break!!! Sure...that was my plan all along...I'll fake a post about a bug, acting as if I don't know about it and request a restart! LMAO!

Both you and Cro continue to show your character...you still have to try and get insults and accusations in when you previously stated if Fulcrum0 made the call to restart you'd abide by it. Who's really whining here?

I had already stated that if you wanted the win this way then try and take it! I had challenged you to show how bad you were by taking us out and giving us the opportunity to show you what we could do under a disadvantage. Go back and read the post!

Go bellyache to Fulcrum0 or quit the tourney if you don't like his decision, quit your complaining or save your frustrations for the rematch.

I even attempted to message Fanatic before he quit the game in order for us to continue the match although Fulcrum0 had recommended a restart.

k lets get a new game quick which one is it?

Think about it sugar.. if you and some of your comrades hadn't started to whine... then the only thing that would be different, is you guys would have lost within the next 20-30 turns.

The accusations have been started by you.. which you later recounted, but now have decided to go back on that.

But like I said.. i'm good to go.. August 1st.

We'll join as soon as a game is selected, Raptor. If you get the info from Fulcrum0, just msg me or post here and we'll jump in.

Cro, your own team mate stated it was a ruined game, due to the fact that some or all of FSA used the bug, and we hadn't. The 'accusations' I stated was, first, I wasn't aware of the bug, second, I suspected that FSA (whole or in part) WAS using the bug, and third, in my opinion it should have been discussed prior to the game.
#1:True statement, I wasn't aware of the bug(of course no way to prove that, but some good evidence to that fact (as Fanatic stated) was my lack of additional troops during our fight near Byron's castle.
#2:Another True statement, more than one FSA member has confirmed that they were using the bug.
#3:A simple statement of 'my opinion'. The reference to FSA made was that I felt in the interest of fair play, BA or one of you would have raised the question about it's use.

So I'm actually inferring that in my opinion knowing your personal position concerning bugs and their use, (stated by you numerous times, even commented on in your bio...as Viva mentioned) you or another FSA member would have clarified the use of this bug prior to the game. Do you understand what I'm saying? It's closer to a compliment than an insult...my expectations was if anyone would have wanted it addressed prior to the game it would have been you.

Never did I or Braque say it was FSA's fault for us not being aware of it. There was no reason for any anger on FSA's part against AAA, but as always...BA starts making comments concerning other disagreements, previous games, dragging up crap that didn't even relate to the current issue, you follow suit and the insults start flying and another flame war is ignited. All for what purpose?

Even now, you seem unable to discontinue with more unneccesary comments...even after your own team mate suggested a re-start and BA agrees to abide by Fulcrum0's decision. You've still got to attempt more character assassination, either here in posts or personal messages you've sent me.

Let's just agree to disagree, because neither you or BA could ever agree with me on anything...I've got to always be wrong and you've always got to be right.

So, good luck to you in the coming game, seize the opportunity (given to you by Fulcrum0) to fight us on an equal basis and if FSA conquers the field, leaving us defeated, you have achieved your desires and can take full credit for a win, fairly and honorably won.

Last Edited : Saturday, 15 May 2004 - 02:25

TO FSA FRIENDS

- I never insulted FSA guys.
- I only asked for a restarting because the bug had make unbalanced the game since from the beginning.
- I admitted that it was my fault didnt read the forum. But I noticed that no clear decision was taken by FULCRUM about allowing or not that bug. You have to admit it, as Fulcrum did. Also, there was NOT a discussion between AAA and FSA about that bug. That could be fine, to decide about our game.I have actually read the post of FULCRUM (last December) about the tourney rules before we started the tourney so I was aware of the OTHER bugs. I believed that THAT post of Fulcrum was the basis for the game. I cannot read everything.
In other words, the rules of a game must be decided or by a third, neutral part (as Fulcrum) or by ALL the partecipants, not ONLY by one of the parts.
This my opinion and the reason of my request for a restart.

I have no personal dislike for any player. I consider you as friends who share with me their passion and fun for WOL.
Thanks you for your attention.

Braquemart

Clan game is #25 - join quick .

Sugar, my bio has nothing to do with Clan games, but if you go read the topic where the rules for clan games were voted on by the masses. You will see, I favored a complete bug free tourney.. but I was simply outvoted by the masses.. that's been mentioned multiple times, so please use relevant information to try to make yourself almost appear respectable.

Here's the basic timeline..

You make us wait about 2-3 weeks..
we start plaing finally...
FSA gets the advantage,
You realize that you have been outplayed by the rules again, so you start to whine...
We are accused of using a bug that hasn't been banned. and because we didn't bring it up were the bad guys..

If you guys wanted fair play, then those in your clan that actually did know of the bug would have brought it up.. obviously we are blamed for not bringing it up, because we have no reason to believe you don't know about it.. why didn't your clan bring it up from your members that were aware of it?

Then you whine some more
Then it is verified that FSA is at no way at fault.
you whine some more.
the game is called for a restart.. and you whine some more.

I guess what ever it takes to make it seem like you would have beaten us otherwise.. perhaps, we should keep restarting the game, until we have the exact same layout.. since we want everything to be even and fair. i'm guessing you wouldn't consider that, who cares if it takes a couple weeks to get it like that.. you made us wait a few weeks.. maybe you should have a wait a few months.

and then you whine some more.. oh did I forget to mention your whining.

And now we will start again.. I am wondering how soon you start whining again.